On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 1:25:19 PM UTC-4, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On 2022-11-02 11:56 a.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 11:25:12 AM UTC-4,
> george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >> On 2022-11-02 10:12 a.m., Ash Wurthing wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 9:57:28 AM UTC-4,
> george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >>>> On 2022-11-01 5:31 p.m., Ash Wurthing wrote:
> >>>>> On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 3:52:24 PM UTC-4, Zod wrote:
> >>>>>>>> I don't remember, we should ask George Dance, little monkey.
> >>>>>>> If you like. I do remember reading PJR's accusation, and
> finding it disturbingly convincing.
> >>>>>> Peter has been known to lie sometimes though....
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Funny who the whippin' fools cannot provide proof. But who needs
> proof when they know they, like Trump, can get away with lying and
> misrepresenting!
> >>>> You're doing the same thing you're complaining about Zod doing,
> >>>> Ashtroll: accusing him of "lying" but not even trying to provide
> proof.
> >>>>
> >>>> Why do you constantly complain about others doing the same things
> you do
> >>>> yourself?
> >>>>
> >>>> That's a rhetorical question, of course; because that's what you
> do, you
> >>>> suspect everyone else of doing the same things.
> >>>
> >>> And why do you also do what you say is so wrong, George Dance?
> >>> Like grossly misrepresenting (paraphrasing you, such a superior
> person so lamely excuse) my words.
> >> You havn't 'paraphrased' anything, stupid troll. You merely accused me
> >> of the same thing you accused Zod of, but didn't supply any "words" of
> >> mine to back up your claim.
> >
> > George, George, George... [shakes head]. If you're going to call
> someone "stupid," it behooves you to spellcheck your statement prior to
> posting it.
> Why not? My typo was simply a typo.

Because when taken in context, your typo makes you look like a dunce.

> His self-referential claim wasn't --

You're using "self-referential" incorrectly.

> it was sheer stupidity on his part to accuse Zod of doing something, and
> then to do exactly the same thing himself.

1)
Stink lied.
Ash pointed out Stink's lie.

2)
Stink provided no evidence to support his claim.
Ash pointed to Stink's unsupported claim and correctly concluded it was a lie.

Again, one is innocent until proven guilty.

When someone (Stink) makes an unsupported accusation against someone else, he is guilty of slander.

> > Failure to do so makes one look like a... dunce.
> >
> In fact, I can call you "stupid" for ignoring what I said to pounce on a
> typo, so I will -- you're being stupid. Please try not to be so stupid
> in the future.

Again, unprovoked name-calling is a sure sign that one has argued himself into a corner.

> >>> You sold your dignity to help your cash cow dominate this group as
> his personal "work" promotion place.
> >> Whatever; you sold yours for a chance to "collaborate" with someone you
> >> thought was a "real poet", Chimp Obsesso.
> >
> > You had obviously sold your dignity prior to my arrival here, George
> > (as evidenced by the comments of PJR, Aratzio, Cujo, and others
> regarding you).
> >
> PJR and what we called his "Crabbe and Goyle" made similarly vile
> comments about you, remember.

I don't remember calling them his "Crabbe" and "Goyle" -- and fail to understand the reference.

Yes, PJR and his friends attacked me. This was at least partially due to my having supported you and your Donkey.

I have since apologized to all concerned.

> Are you saying you lost your own dignity
> because of them?

I don't see how your supposed analogy holds.

I undeniably lost some dignity in supporting you and the Donkey. I hope that I have since gained most of my dignity back.

> > Ash, otoh, had just as obviously remained neutral in the celebrated
> Donkey Wars , until the Donkey and his Stink began attacking him.
>
> That's doubtful. First, it doesn't match my own experience with the
> Ashtroll -- he attacked me first -- and I've seen him attacking others,
> such as Ilya, who've never attacked him at all.

Your experiences pertain to you. I've no idea which of you attacked the other first.

> Second, the Ashtroll has admitted that he was already working for the
> Chimp, who spends as much as 85% of his time attacking Will.

Ash has not, to the best of my knowledge, ever admitted any such thing.

> You may
> want to call that a coincidence, but I don't think anyone but Team
> Monkey's or their fans is gonna buy it.

You don't think that anyone will buy what?

> Slapping down one's enemies is hardly "selling out."
> >
> >>> You're hardly superior,
> >>
> >>
> >> I'm certainly superior to you in some things. Morally and ethically, for
> >> one: you constantly lie and bullshit for the win, while I stick to
> >> telling the truth.
> >
> > No, George, you don't.
> >
> > You may believe you're telling the truth, but you are not.
> >
> > A comparison of "Penny's Hat" with "Batty's" makes it abundantly
> clear that you stole PJR's poem almost word-for-word, yet you
> continually deny it.
> So you've said; but you haven't even bothered to compare those two
> works. Instead, you tried comparing PJ's poem to an old draft (in which
> the lines you called "plagiarized" weren't even written by me), and
> trying to pretend that was "Penny's Hat." You tried a fraud, and got
> caught doing it.

If the final version of "Penny's Hat" is significantly different, post it.

If it is, I'll admit that I was wrong.

Contrary to paranoid belief, I'd love to believe that you aren't the deceitful, disingenuous, petty, childish, amoral asswipe that you come across as.

> > You also are known for your dishonest "strawman" arguments, wherein
> you falsely attribute a reworded statement to your selected "opponent,"
> and proceed to argue against it.
> >
> You've called some of my arguments "strawmen." -- I've called some of
> yours "strawmen." So I could say the same thing about you.

You could. But you'd be wrong. I don't play the debating society game.

> >>> you're as lowly as > the worst Usenet troll, and I now believe some
> of the accusations against you because you personally proved them with
> your behavior here.
> >> Given that you're a proven liar and bullshitter, there's no reason to
> >> think you actually believe any of them. It's more likely you're lying
> >> and bullshitting about that for a win, too.
> >
> > You say that Ash is a *proven* liar and bullshitter, yet decline to
> provide any evidence to back up your claim.
> >
> I just flagged one such claim on this thread: the Ashtroll's claim that
> Pj had "declared war" with me over "Penny's Hat." When in fact PJ and
> his team (Aratzio, Cujo, et al) had been fighting their flame war with
> me long before that. Either the Ashtroll knew that (which means he was
> lying) or he didn't (which means he was bullshitting).

As previously noted, you're taking Ash's "declared war" in a literal sense. Ash is not saying that PJR issued you an official declaration of war as a result of your literary theft.

Ash is saying that PJR had ample reason for considering himself your enemy.

You are as (pardon me) dense regarding metaphor as your regarding humor.
>
> So you can't even say that I haven't produced any evidence. And when you
> say I "declined" to provide any, you've crossed over into simple lying.

Where is this evidence?

AFAICS you've claimed that Ray was responsible for modifying the words of PJR's poem, and that you merely joined in the fun -- and added your name to an adaption of PJR's work.

> > AFAIC, your failure to support your claims renders them untrue, and
> makes you both a liar and a bullshitter for having made them.
> >
> AFAIC, you're just supporting a fellow member of your Team Monkey (the
> same way you were doing for Nasty Gene earlier) in their flame war.

George J. Dance wrote:

> On 2022-11-02 11:56 a.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 11:25:12 AM UTC-4,
> george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >> On 2022-11-02 10:12 a.m., Ash Wurthing wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 9:57:28 AM UTC-4,
> george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >>>> On 2022-11-01 5:31 p.m., Ash Wurthing wrote:
> >>>>> On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 3:52:24 PM UTC-4, Zod wrote:
> >>>>>>>> I don't remember, we should ask George Dance, little monkey.
> >>>>>>> If you like. I do remember reading PJR's accusation, and
> finding it disturbingly convincing.
> >>>>>> Peter has been known to lie sometimes though....
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Funny who the whippin' fools cannot provide proof. But who needs
> proof when they know they, like Trump, can get away with lying and
> misrepresenting!
> >>>> You're doing the same thing you're complaining about Zod doing,
> >>>> Ashtroll: accusing him of "lying" but not even trying to provide
> proof.
> >>>>
> >>>> Why do you constantly complain about others doing the same things
> you do
> >>>> yourself?
> >>>>
> >>>> That's a rhetorical question, of course; because that's what you
> do, you
> >>>> suspect everyone else of doing the same things.
> >>>
> >>> And why do you also do what you say is so wrong, George Dance?
> >>> Like grossly misrepresenting (paraphrasing you, such a superior
> person so lamely excuse) my words.
> >> You havn't 'paraphrased' anything, stupid troll. You merely accused me
> >> of the same thing you accused Zod of, but didn't supply any "words" of
> >> mine to back up your claim.
> >
> > George, George, George... [shakes head]. If you're going to call
> someone "stupid," it behooves you to spellcheck your statement prior to
> posting it.

> Why not? My typo was simply a typo. His self-referential claim wasn't --
> it was sheer stupidity on his part to accuse Zod of doing something, and
> then to do exactly the same thing himself.

> > Failure to do so makes one look like a... dunce.
> >
> In fact, I can call you "stupid" for ignoring what I said to pounce on a
> typo, so I will -- you're being stupid. Please try not to be so stupid
> in the future.

> >>> You sold your dignity to help your cash cow dominate this group as
> his personal "work" promotion place.
> >> Whatever; you sold yours for a chance to "collaborate" with someone you
> >> thought was a "real poet", Chimp Obsesso.
> >
> > You had obviously sold your dignity prior to my arrival here, George
> > (as evidenced by the comments of PJR, Aratzio, Cujo, and others
> regarding you).
> >
> PJR and what we called his "Crabbe and Goyle" made similarly vile
> comments about you, remember. Are you saying you lost your own dignity
> because of them?

> > Ash, otoh, had just as obviously remained neutral in the celebrated
> Donkey Wars , until the Donkey and his Stink began attacking him.

> That's doubtful. First, it doesn't match my own experience with the
> Ashtroll -- he attacked me first -- and I've seen him attacking others,
> such as Ilya, who've never attacked him at all.

> Second, the Ashtroll has admitted that he was already working for the
> Chimp, who spends as much as 85% of his time attacking Will. You may
> want to call that a coincidence, but I don't think anyone but Team
> Monkey's or their fans is gonna buy it.

> Slapping down one's enemies is hardly "selling out."
> >
> >>> You're hardly superior,
> >>
> >>
> >> I'm certainly superior to you in some things. Morally and ethically, for
> >> one: you constantly lie and bullshit for the win, while I stick to
> >> telling the truth.
> >
> > No, George, you don't.
> >
> > You may believe you're telling the truth, but you are not.
> >
> > A comparison of "Penny's Hat" with "Batty's" makes it abundantly
> clear that you stole PJR's poem almost word-for-word, yet you
> continually deny it.

> So you've said; but you haven't even bothered to compare those two
> works. Instead, you tried comparing PJ's poem to an old draft (in which
> the lines you called "plagiarized" weren't even written by me), and
> trying to pretend that was "Penny's Hat." You tried a fraud, and got
> caught doing it.

> >
> > You also are known for your dishonest "strawman" arguments, wherein
> you falsely attribute a reworded statement to your selected "opponent,"
> and proceed to argue against it.
> >
> You've called some of my arguments "strawmen." -- I've called some of
> yours "strawmen." So I could say the same thing about you.

> >>> you're as lowly as > the worst Usenet troll, and I now believe some
> of the accusations against you because you personally proved them with
> your behavior here.
> >> Given that you're a proven liar and bullshitter, there's no reason to
> >> think you actually believe any of them. It's more likely you're lying
> >> and bullshitting about that for a win, too.
> >
> > You say that Ash is a *proven* liar and bullshitter, yet decline to
> provide any evidence to back up your claim.
> >
> I just flagged one such claim on this thread: the Ashtroll's claim that
> Pj had "declared war" with me over "Penny's Hat." When in fact PJ and
> his team (Aratzio, Cujo, et al) had been fighting their flame war with
> me long before that. Either the Ashtroll knew that (which means he was
> lying) or he didn't (which means he was bullshitting).

> So you can't even say that I haven't produced any evidence. And when you
> say I "declined" to provide any, you've crossed over into simple lying.

> > AFAIC, your failure to support your claims renders them untrue, and
> makes you both a liar and a bullshitter for having made them.
> >
> AFAIC, you're just supporting a fellow member of your Team Monkey (the
> same way you were doing for Nasty Gene earlier) in their flame war.

> > When it comes to accusing others on Usenet, you know the rules: PP or
> STFU.

> As I just pointed out, I've already given you an example. You can
> pretend to not read it, if you want, but I'll keep reminding you it's in
> the thread.

Yep....

On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 1:25:19 PM UTC-4, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On 2022-11-02 11:56 a.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 11:25:12 AM UTC-4,
> george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >> On 2022-11-02 10:12 a.m., Ash Wurthing wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 9:57:28 AM UTC-4,
> george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >>>> On 2022-11-01 5:31 p.m., Ash Wurthing wrote:
> >>>>> On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 3:52:24 PM UTC-4, Zod wrote:
> >>>>>>>> I don't remember, we should ask George Dance, little monkey.
> >>>>>>> If you like. I do remember reading PJR's accusation, and
> finding it disturbingly convincing.
> >>>>>> Peter has been known to lie sometimes though....
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Funny who the whippin' fools cannot provide proof. But who needs
> proof when they know they, like Trump, can get away with lying and
> misrepresenting!
> >>>> You're doing the same thing you're complaining about Zod doing,
> >>>> Ashtroll: accusing him of "lying" but not even trying to provide
> proof.
> >>>>
> >>>> Why do you constantly complain about others doing the same things
> you do
> >>>> yourself?
> >>>>
> >>>> That's a rhetorical question, of course; because that's what you
> do, you
> >>>> suspect everyone else of doing the same things.
> >>>
> >>> And why do you also do what you say is so wrong, George Dance?
> >>> Like grossly misrepresenting (paraphrasing you, such a superior
> person so lamely excuse) my words.
> >> You havn't 'paraphrased' anything, stupid troll. You merely accused me
> >> of the same thing you accused Zod of, but didn't supply any "words" of
> >> mine to back up your claim.
> >
> > George, George, George... [shakes head]. If you're going to call
> someone "stupid," it behooves you to spellcheck your statement prior to
> posting it.
> Why not? My typo was simply a typo. His self-referential claim wasn't --
> it was sheer stupidity on his part to accuse Zod of doing something, and
> then to do exactly the same thing himself.
> > Failure to do so makes one look like a... dunce.
> >
> In fact, I can call you "stupid" for ignoring what I said to pounce on a
> typo, so I will -- you're being stupid. Please try not to be so stupid
> in the future.
> >>> You sold your dignity to help your cash cow dominate this group as
> his personal "work" promotion place.
> >> Whatever; you sold yours for a chance to "collaborate" with someone you
> >> thought was a "real poet", Chimp Obsesso.
> >
> > You had obviously sold your dignity prior to my arrival here, George
> > (as evidenced by the comments of PJR, Aratzio, Cujo, and others
> regarding you).
> >
> PJR and what we called his "Crabbe and Goyle" made similarly vile
> comments about you, remember. Are you saying you lost your own dignity
> because of them?
> > Ash, otoh, had just as obviously remained neutral in the celebrated
> Donkey Wars , until the Donkey and his Stink began attacking him.
>
> That's doubtful. First, it doesn't match my own experience with the
> Ashtroll -- he attacked me first -- and I've seen him attacking others,
> such as Ilya, who've never attacked him at all.
>
> Second, the Ashtroll has admitted that he was already working for the
> Chimp, who spends as much as 85% of his time attacking Will. You may
> want to call that a coincidence, but I don't think anyone but Team
> Monkey's or their fans is gonna buy it.
> Slapping down one's enemies is hardly "selling out."
> >
> >>> You're hardly superior,
> >>
> >>
> >> I'm certainly superior to you in some things. Morally and ethically, for
> >> one: you constantly lie and bullshit for the win, while I stick to
> >> telling the truth.
> >
> > No, George, you don't.
> >
> > You may believe you're telling the truth, but you are not.
> >
> > A comparison of "Penny's Hat" with "Batty's" makes it abundantly
> clear that you stole PJR's poem almost word-for-word, yet you
> continually deny it.
> So you've said; but you haven't even bothered to compare those two
> works. Instead, you tried comparing PJ's poem to an old draft (in which
> the lines you called "plagiarized" weren't even written by me), and
> trying to pretend that was "Penny's Hat." You tried a fraud, and got
> caught doing it.
> >
> > You also are known for your dishonest "strawman" arguments, wherein
> you falsely attribute a reworded statement to your selected "opponent,"
> and proceed to argue against it.
> >
> You've called some of my arguments "strawmen." -- I've called some of
> yours "strawmen." So I could say the same thing about you.
> >>> you're as lowly as > the worst Usenet troll, and I now believe some
> of the accusations against you because you personally proved them with
> your behavior here.
> >> Given that you're a proven liar and bullshitter, there's no reason to
> >> think you actually believe any of them. It's more likely you're lying
> >> and bullshitting about that for a win, too.
> >
> > You say that Ash is a *proven* liar and bullshitter, yet decline to
> provide any evidence to back up your claim.
> >
> I just flagged one such claim on this thread: the Ashtroll's claim that
> Pj had "declared war" with me over "Penny's Hat." When in fact PJ and
> his team (Aratzio, Cujo, et al) had been fighting their flame war with
> me long before that. Either the Ashtroll knew that (which means he was
> lying) or he didn't (which means he was bullshitting).
>
>
> So you can't even say that I haven't produced any evidence. And when you
> say I "declined" to provide any, you've crossed over into simple lying.
> > AFAIC, your failure to support your claims renders them untrue, and
> makes you both a liar and a bullshitter for having made them.
> >
> AFAIC, you're just supporting a fellow member of your Team Monkey (the
> same way you were doing for Nasty Gene earlier) in their flame war.
> > When it comes to accusing others on Usenet, you know the rules: PP or
> STFU.
> As I just pointed out, I've already given you an example. You can
> pretend to not read it, if you want, but I'll keep reminding you it's in
> the thread.

Well put GD.....

George J. Dance wrote:

> On 2022-11-02 9:03 a.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
>> On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 12:04:09 AM UTC-4, Zod wrote:
>>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 3:25:28 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 2:11:38 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 12:59:44 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, October 22, 2022 at 5:51:34 AM UTC, george....@yahoo.ca wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> postpoetry
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> although there's nothing left to say
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we're gonna say it anyway
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a reader doesn't read
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we'll call him something we don't need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a critic calls it shit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we won't believe a word of it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a poet points that out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we'll just ignore it & we'll shout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about her frogs and trees and birds
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so we won't have to read her words
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or better yet let's write of war
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and fill a page or two with gore
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some reeking flesh a severed head
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & maggots feasting on the dead
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if perchance that doesn't shock
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> let's add a line of fuck ass cock
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motherfucker piss & shit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (who knows that just might pass for wit)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what else to do what else to say
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when everything is mere cliche?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how else to make a reader feel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or think that what we say is real?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course the whole idea is dumb
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when we're as comfortably numb
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but if we sweat through every motion
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we may feel a real emotion –
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at least it kills an hour or two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and we have nothing else to do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance, 2007
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Doggerel, and other doggerel, 2015
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance don't need no stinkin' commas.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It isn't about what George Dance needs, "Professor"; it's about what the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> speaker of the poem needs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The speaker in your poem is not "a muse."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I never said he was. Where did you get the idea the speaker might be a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> muse?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If poetry is meant to be read aloud, how does your lack of punctuation help your poem?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Use the line and stanza breaks. That's what they're there for.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You did not address the visual demand for six ampersands..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's just part of the style. "and" is replaced by &.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does the speaker say "ampersand" in each line?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, "Professor,", an ampersand is pronounced "and." I can understand you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not knowing that, but it's something you could have Googled.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me quote (from memory) from Karla, another wannabe online poetry
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> teacher we once had here:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Do not confuse the speaker of the poem with the writer of the poem.."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That saying has been used too much here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not enough, considering how many tend to forget it so often.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The poem still represents your attempt at creativity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, good; you haven't started calling it "plagiarized" yet..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Should she have?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be a typical NancyGene troll stunt, yes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't ask if she would have (in your paranoid opinion), but *should* she have.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance is known (with or without justification) for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's just a smear from PJR, Pen, you know that.....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pendragon damned well knows it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That only accounts for one of the accusations.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Both Jim and I were victims of another form of literary theft when George Dance refused to remove our poetry from his website and posted out of context quotes by us in his wiki.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's not plagiarism, though.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What part of "another form" are you failing to comprehend?
>>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance did, otoh, plagiarize "Batty's Hat" from PJR. And you know that, as well.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> No, it was a parody, satire of PJR.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Fair use.
>>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you nailed that onme, Doc...!
>>>>>>>>> Obvious, probably even to PJR himself.
>>>>>>>> Obviously not, since PJR accused George Dance of having plagiarized it from him.
>>>>>>> I didn't say PJR would admit it, little monkey.
>>>>>> Was George's "Penny's Hat" blog a satire as well, Donkey?
>>>>> I don't remember, we should ask George Dance, little monkey.
>>>
>>>> If you like. I do remember reading PJR's accusation, and finding it disturbingly convincing.
>>> Your memory is not well known to be very trustworthy, Pen.
>>
>> I am known for having an exceptional memory, Stink.
>>
>> I could easily find and repost PJR's accusation, but I doubt that George Dance would be happy about it.
>>
>> I also doubt that George Dance appreciates how you and your Donkey insist on pressing the issue. As previously noted, I don't believe that George Dance intentionally set out to plagiarize PJR.
>>
>> However, that is precisely what he did

On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 7:33:48 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> George J. Dance wrote:
>
> > On 2022-11-02 9:03 a.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 12:04:09 AM UTC-4, Zod wrote:
> >>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 3:25:28 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 2:11:38 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 12:59:44 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, October 22, 2022 at 5:51:34 AM UTC, george....@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> postpoetry
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> although there's nothing left to say
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we're gonna say it anyway
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a reader doesn't read
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we'll call him something we don't need
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a critic calls it shit
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we won't believe a word of it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a poet points that out
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we'll just ignore it & we'll shout
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about her frogs and trees and birds
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so we won't have to read her words
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or better yet let's write of war
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and fill a page or two with gore
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some reeking flesh a severed head
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & maggots feasting on the dead
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if perchance that doesn't shock
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> let's add a line of fuck ass cock
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motherfucker piss & shit
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (who knows that just might pass for wit)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what else to do what else to say
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when everything is mere cliche?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how else to make a reader feel
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or think that what we say is real?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course the whole idea is dumb
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when we're as comfortably numb
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but if we sweat through every motion
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we may feel a real emotion –
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at least it kills an hour or two
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and we have nothing else to do.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance, 2007
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Doggerel, and other doggerel, 2015
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance don't need no stinkin' commas.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It isn't about what George Dance needs, "Professor"; it's about what the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> speaker of the poem needs.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The speaker in your poem is not "a muse."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I never said he was. Where did you get the idea the speaker might be a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> muse?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If poetry is meant to be read aloud, how does your lack of punctuation help your poem?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Use the line and stanza breaks. That's what they're there for.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You did not address the visual demand for six ampersands..
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's just part of the style. "and" is replaced by &..
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does the speaker say "ampersand" in each line?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, "Professor,", an ampersand is pronounced "and." I can understand you
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not knowing that, but it's something you could have Googled.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me quote (from memory) from Karla, another wannabe online poetry
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> teacher we once had here:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Do not confuse the speaker of the poem with the writer of the poem.."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That saying has been used too much here.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not enough, considering how many tend to forget it so often.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The poem still represents your attempt at creativity.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, good; you haven't started calling it "plagiarized" yet..
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Should she have?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be a typical NancyGene troll stunt, yes.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't ask if she would have (in your paranoid opinion), but *should* she have.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance is known (with or without justification) for
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's just a smear from PJR, Pen, you know that.....
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pendragon damned well knows it.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That only accounts for one of the accusations.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Both Jim and I were victims of another form of literary theft when George Dance refused to remove our poetry from his website and posted out of context quotes by us in his wiki.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's not plagiarism, though.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> What part of "another form" are you failing to comprehend?
> >>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance did, otoh, plagiarize "Batty's Hat" from PJR. And you know that, as well.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> No, it was a parody, satire of PJR.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Fair use.
> >>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you nailed that onme, Doc...!
> >>>>>>>>> Obvious, probably even to PJR himself.
> >>>>>>>> Obviously not, since PJR accused George Dance of having plagiarized it from him.
> >>>>>>> I didn't say PJR would admit it, little monkey.
> >>>>>> Was George's "Penny's Hat" blog a satire as well, Donkey?
> >>>>> I don't remember, we should ask George Dance, little monkey.
> >>>
> >>>> If you like. I do remember reading PJR's accusation, and finding it disturbingly convincing.
> >>> Your memory is not well known to be very trustworthy, Pen.
> >>
> >> I am known for having an exceptional memory, Stink.
> >>
> >> I could easily find and repost PJR's accusation, but I doubt that George Dance would be happy about it.
> >>
> >> I also doubt that George Dance appreciates how you and your Donkey insist on pressing the issue. As previously noted, I don't believe that George Dance intentionally set out to plagiarize PJR.
> >>
> >> However, that is precisely what he did
>
>
> > No, that was a false accusation of PJ Ross's (and, now, yours). The
> > alleged plagiaized poem that PJ Ross claimed I'd posted never existed.
> > When that was not just pointed out but proven, he simply made up a story
> > that I'd "deleted" it (not just from Google groups, but from all of
> > usenet).
>
>
> >> , and raking it over the coals, yet another time, does nothing to improve his reputation.
>
>
> > Actually, I think allowing bogus allegations like the above one go
> > unanswered would be far worse for my reputation.
> Pendragon has based a bit of his persona on PJR, he wanted to have PJR mentor him, remember?

Michael Pendragon <michaelmaleficapendragon@gmail.com> wrote in
news:3b778939-97f4-45a5-b0da-0487f92732a9n@googlegroups.com:

> On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 7:33:48 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery
> wrote:
>> George J. Dance wrote:
>>
>> > On 2022-11-02 9:03 a.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
>> >> On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 12:04:09 AM UTC-4, Zod wrote:
>> >>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 3:25:28 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery
>> >>>> wrote
>:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 2:11:38 PM UTC-4, Michael
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Pen
> dragon wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 12:59:44 PM UTC-4, Will
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dock
> ery wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, October 22, 2022 at 5:51:34 AM
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UTC, g
> eorge....@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> postpoetry
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> although there's nothing left to say
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we're gonna say it anyway
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a reader doesn't read
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we'll call him something we don't need
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a critic calls it shit
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we won't believe a word of it
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a poet points that out
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we'll just ignore it & we'll shout
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about her frogs and trees and birds
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so we won't have to read her words
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or better yet let's write of war
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and fill a page or two with gore
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some reeking flesh a severed head
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & maggots feasting on the dead
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if perchance that doesn't shock
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> let's add a line of fuck ass cock
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motherfucker piss & shit
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (who knows that just might pass for wit)
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what else to do what else to say
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when everything is mere cliche?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how else to make a reader feel
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or think that what we say is real?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course the whole idea is dumb
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when we're as comfortably numb
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but if we sweat through every motion
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we may feel a real emotion –
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at least it kills an hour or two
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and we have nothing else to do.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance, 2007
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Doggerel, and other doggerel, 2015
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance don't need no stinkin' commas.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It isn't about what George Dance needs,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Professo
> r"; it's about what the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> speaker of the poem needs.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The speaker in your poem is not "a muse."
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I never said he was. Where did you get the idea
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> speaker might be a
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> muse?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If poetry is meant to be read aloud, how does
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
> lack of punctuation help your poem?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Use the line and stanza breaks. That's what
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they're
> there for.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You did not address the visual demand for six
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ampe
> rsands..
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's just part of the style. "and" is replaced
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by &
> .
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does the speaker say "ampersand" in each line?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, "Professor,", an ampersand is pronounced
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "and."
> I can understand you
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not knowing that, but it's something you could
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
> Googled.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me quote (from memory) from Karla,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another wa
> nnabe online poetry
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> teacher we once had here:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Do not confuse the speaker of the poem with
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> writer of the poem.."
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That saying has been used too much here.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not enough, considering how many tend to forget
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
> so often.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The poem still represents your attempt at
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> creativi
> ty.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, good; you haven't started calling it
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "plagiariz
> ed" yet..
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Should she have?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be a typical NancyGene troll stunt,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yes.
>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't ask if she would have (in your paranoid
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opini
> on), but *should* she have.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance is known (with or without
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> justification)
> for
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's just a smear from PJR, Pen, you know
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that.....
>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pendragon damned well knows it.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That only accounts for one of the accusations.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Both Jim and I were victims of another form of
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> literary t
> heft when George Dance refused to remove our poetry from his website
> and posted out of context quotes by us in his wiki.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's not plagiarism, though.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> What part of "another form" are you failing to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> comprehend?
>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance did, otoh, plagiarize "Batty's Hat" from
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> PJR. A
> nd you know that, as well.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> No, it was a parody, satire of PJR.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Fair use.
>> >>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you nailed that onme, Doc...!
>> >>>>>>>>> Obvious, probably even to PJR himself.
>> >>>>>>>> Obviously not, since PJR accused George Dance of having
>> >>>>>>>> plagiari
> zed it from him.
>> >>>>>>> I didn't say PJR would admit it, little monkey.
>> >>>>>> Was George's "Penny's Hat" blog a satire as well, Donkey?
>> >>>>> I don't remember, we should ask George Dance, little monkey.
>> >>>
>> >>>> If you like. I do remember reading PJR's accusation, and finding
>> >>>> it
> disturbingly convincing.
>> >>> Your memory is not well known to be very trustworthy, Pen.
>> >>
>> >> I am known for having an exceptional memory, Stink.
>> >>
>> >> I could easily find and repost PJR's accusation, but I doubt that
>> >> Geor
> ge Dance would be happy about it.
>> >>
>> >> I also doubt that George Dance appreciates how you and your Donkey
>> >> ins
> ist on pressing the issue. As previously noted, I don't believe that
> George Dance intentionally set out to plagiarize PJR.
>> >>
>> >> However, that is precisely what he did
>>
>>
>> > No, that was a false accusation of PJ Ross's (and, now, yours). The
>> > alleged plagiaized poem that PJ Ross claimed I'd posted never
>> > existed.
>
>> > When that was not just pointed out but proven, he simply made up a
>> > story
>> > that I'd "deleted" it (not just from Google groups, but from all of
>> > usenet).
>>
>>
>> >> , and raking it over the coals, yet another time, does nothing to
>> >> improve his reputation.
>>
>>
>> > Actually, I think allowing bogus allegations like the above one go
>> > unanswered would be far worse for my reputation.
>> Pendragon has based a bit of his persona on PJR, he wanted to have
>> PJR mentor him, remember?
>
> PP or STFU, Donkey.

Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 7:33:48 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> George J. Dance wrote:
>>
>> > On 2022-11-02 9:03 a.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
>> >> On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 12:04:09 AM UTC-4, Zod wrote:
>> >>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 3:25:28 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 2:11:38 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 12:59:44 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, October 22, 2022 at 5:51:34 AM UTC, george....@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> postpoetry
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> although there's nothing left to say
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we're gonna say it anyway
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a reader doesn't read
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we'll call him something we don't need
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a critic calls it shit
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we won't believe a word of it
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a poet points that out
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we'll just ignore it & we'll shout
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about her frogs and trees and birds
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so we won't have to read her words
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or better yet let's write of war
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and fill a page or two with gore
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some reeking flesh a severed head
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & maggots feasting on the dead
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if perchance that doesn't shock
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> let's add a line of fuck ass cock
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motherfucker piss & shit
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (who knows that just might pass for wit)
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what else to do what else to say
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when everything is mere cliche?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how else to make a reader feel
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or think that what we say is real?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course the whole idea is dumb
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when we're as comfortably numb
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but if we sweat through every motion
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we may feel a real emotion –
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at least it kills an hour or two
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and we have nothing else to do.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance, 2007
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Doggerel, and other doggerel, 2015
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance don't need no stinkin' commas.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It isn't about what George Dance needs, "Professor"; it's about what the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> speaker of the poem needs.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The speaker in your poem is not "a muse."
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I never said he was. Where did you get the idea the speaker might be a
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> muse?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If poetry is meant to be read aloud, how does your lack of punctuation help your poem?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Use the line and stanza breaks. That's what they're there for.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You did not address the visual demand for six ampersands..
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's just part of the style. "and" is replaced by &..
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does the speaker say "ampersand" in each line?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, "Professor,", an ampersand is pronounced "and." I can understand you
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not knowing that, but it's something you could have Googled.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me quote (from memory) from Karla, another wannabe online poetry
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> teacher we once had here:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Do not confuse the speaker of the poem with the writer of the poem.."
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That saying has been used too much here.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not enough, considering how many tend to forget it so often.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The poem still represents your attempt at creativity.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, good; you haven't started calling it "plagiarized" yet..
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Should she have?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be a typical NancyGene troll stunt, yes.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't ask if she would have (in your paranoid opinion), but *should* she have.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance is known (with or without justification) for
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's just a smear from PJR, Pen, you know that.....
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pendragon damned well knows it.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That only accounts for one of the accusations.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Both Jim and I were victims of another form of literary theft when George Dance refused to remove our poetry from his website and posted out of context quotes by us in his wiki.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's not plagiarism, though.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> What part of "another form" are you failing to comprehend?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance did, otoh, plagiarize "Batty's Hat" from PJR. And you know that, as well.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> No, it was a parody, satire of PJR.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Fair use.
>> >>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you nailed that onme, Doc...!
>> >>>>>>>>> Obvious, probably even to PJR himself.
>> >>>>>>>> Obviously not, since PJR accused George Dance of having plagiarized it from him.
>> >>>>>>> I didn't say PJR would admit it, little monkey.
>> >>>>>> Was George's "Penny's Hat" blog a satire as well, Donkey?
>> >>>>> I don't remember, we should ask George Dance, little monkey.
>> >>>
>> >>>> If you like. I do remember reading PJR's accusation, and finding it disturbingly convincing.
>> >>> Your memory is not well known to be very trustworthy, Pen.
>> >>
>> >> I am known for having an exceptional memory, Stink.
>> >>
>> >> I could easily find and repost PJR's accusation, but I doubt that George Dance would be happy about it.
>> >>
>> >> I also doubt that George Dance appreciates how you and your Donkey insist on pressing the issue. As previously noted, I don't believe that George Dance intentionally set out to plagiarize PJR.
>> >>
>> >> However, that is precisely what he did
>>
>>
>> > No, that was a false accusation of PJ Ross's (and, now, yours). The
>> > alleged plagiaized poem that PJ Ross claimed I'd posted never existed.
>> > When that was not just pointed out but proven, he simply made up a story
>> > that I'd "deleted" it (not just from Google groups, but from all of
>> > usenet).
>>
>>
>> >> , and raking it over the coals, yet another time, does nothing to improve his reputation.
>>
>>
>> > Actually, I think allowing bogus allegations like the above one go
>> > unanswered would be far worse for my reputation.
>> Pendragon has based a bit of his persona on PJR, he wanted to have PJR mentor him, remember?

On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 3:05:18 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>
> > On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 7:33:48 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> George J. Dance wrote:
> >>
> >> > On 2022-11-02 9:03 a.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >> >> On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 12:04:09 AM UTC-4, Zod wrote:
> >> >>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 3:25:28 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 2:11:38 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 12:59:44 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, October 22, 2022 at 5:51:34 AM UTC, george....@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> postpoetry
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> although there's nothing left to say
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we're gonna say it anyway
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a reader doesn't read
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we'll call him something we don't need
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a critic calls it shit
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we won't believe a word of it
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a poet points that out
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we'll just ignore it & we'll shout
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about her frogs and trees and birds
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so we won't have to read her words
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or better yet let's write of war
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and fill a page or two with gore
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some reeking flesh a severed head
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & maggots feasting on the dead
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if perchance that doesn't shock
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> let's add a line of fuck ass cock
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motherfucker piss & shit
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (who knows that just might pass for wit)
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what else to do what else to say
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when everything is mere cliche?
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how else to make a reader feel
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or think that what we say is real?
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course the whole idea is dumb
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when we're as comfortably numb
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but if we sweat through every motion
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we may feel a real emotion –
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at least it kills an hour or two
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and we have nothing else to do.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance, 2007
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Doggerel, and other doggerel, 2015
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance don't need no stinkin' commas.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It isn't about what George Dance needs, "Professor"; it's about what the
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> speaker of the poem needs.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The speaker in your poem is not "a muse."
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I never said he was. Where did you get the idea the speaker might be a
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> muse?
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If poetry is meant to be read aloud, how does your lack of punctuation help your poem?
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Use the line and stanza breaks. That's what they're there for.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You did not address the visual demand for six ampersands..
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's just part of the style. "and" is replaced by &..
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does the speaker say "ampersand" in each line?
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, "Professor,", an ampersand is pronounced "and." I can understand you
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not knowing that, but it's something you could have Googled.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me quote (from memory) from Karla, another wannabe online poetry
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> teacher we once had here:
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Do not confuse the speaker of the poem with the writer of the poem.."
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That saying has been used too much here.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not enough, considering how many tend to forget it so often.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The poem still represents your attempt at creativity.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, good; you haven't started calling it "plagiarized" yet..
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Should she have?
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be a typical NancyGene troll stunt, yes..
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't ask if she would have (in your paranoid opinion), but *should* she have.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance is known (with or without justification) for
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's just a smear from PJR, Pen, you know that......
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pendragon damned well knows it.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That only accounts for one of the accusations.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Both Jim and I were victims of another form of literary theft when George Dance refused to remove our poetry from his website and posted out of context quotes by us in his wiki.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's not plagiarism, though.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> What part of "another form" are you failing to comprehend?
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance did, otoh, plagiarize "Batty's Hat" from PJR.. And you know that, as well.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> No, it was a parody, satire of PJR.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Fair use.
> >> >>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you nailed that onme, Doc...!
> >> >>>>>>>>> Obvious, probably even to PJR himself.
> >> >>>>>>>> Obviously not, since PJR accused George Dance of having plagiarized it from him.
> >> >>>>>>> I didn't say PJR would admit it, little monkey.
> >> >>>>>> Was George's "Penny's Hat" blog a satire as well, Donkey?
> >> >>>>> I don't remember, we should ask George Dance, little monkey.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> If you like. I do remember reading PJR's accusation, and finding it disturbingly convincing.
> >> >>> Your memory is not well known to be very trustworthy, Pen.
> >> >>
> >> >> I am known for having an exceptional memory, Stink.
> >> >>
> >> >> I could easily find and repost PJR's accusation, but I doubt that George Dance would be happy about it.
> >> >>
> >> >> I also doubt that George Dance appreciates how you and your Donkey insist on pressing the issue. As previously noted, I don't believe that George Dance intentionally set out to plagiarize PJR.
> >> >>
> >> >> However, that is precisely what he did
> >>
> >>
> >> > No, that was a false accusation of PJ Ross's (and, now, yours). The
> >> > alleged plagiaized poem that PJ Ross claimed I'd posted never existed.
> >> > When that was not just pointed out but proven, he simply made up a story
> >> > that I'd "deleted" it (not just from Google groups, but from all of
> >> > usenet).
> >>
> >>
> >> >> , and raking it over the coals, yet another time, does nothing to improve his reputation.
> >>
> >>
> >> > Actually, I think allowing bogus allegations like the above one go
> >> > unanswered would be far worse for my reputation.
> >> Pendragon has based a bit of his persona on PJR, he wanted to have PJR mentor him, remember?
>
> > PP or STFU
> You know I can prove it, little monkey.

On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 3:22:35 PM UTC-4, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 3:05:18 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >
> > > On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 7:33:48 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > >> George J. Dance wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > On 2022-11-02 9:03 a.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > >> >> On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 12:04:09 AM UTC-4, Zod wrote:
> > >> >>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>>> On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 3:25:28 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 2:11:38 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 12:59:44 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, October 22, 2022 at 5:51:34 AM UTC, george....@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> postpoetry
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> although there's nothing left to say
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we're gonna say it anyway
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a reader doesn't read
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we'll call him something we don't need
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a critic calls it shit
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we won't believe a word of it
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a poet points that out
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we'll just ignore it & we'll shout
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about her frogs and trees and birds
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so we won't have to read her words
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or better yet let's write of war
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and fill a page or two with gore
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some reeking flesh a severed head
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & maggots feasting on the dead
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if perchance that doesn't shock
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> let's add a line of fuck ass cock
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motherfucker piss & shit
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (who knows that just might pass for wit)
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what else to do what else to say
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when everything is mere cliche?
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how else to make a reader feel
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or think that what we say is real?
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course the whole idea is dumb
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when we're as comfortably numb
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but if we sweat through every motion
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we may feel a real emotion –
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at least it kills an hour or two
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and we have nothing else to do.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance, 2007
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Doggerel, and other doggerel, 2015
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance don't need no stinkin' commas.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It isn't about what George Dance needs, "Professor"; it's about what the
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> speaker of the poem needs.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The speaker in your poem is not "a muse."
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I never said he was. Where did you get the idea the speaker might be a
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> muse?
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If poetry is meant to be read aloud, how does your lack of punctuation help your poem?
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Use the line and stanza breaks. That's what they're there for.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You did not address the visual demand for six ampersands..
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's just part of the style. "and" is replaced by &..
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does the speaker say "ampersand" in each line?
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, "Professor,", an ampersand is pronounced "and." I can understand you
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not knowing that, but it's something you could have Googled.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me quote (from memory) from Karla, another wannabe online poetry
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> teacher we once had here:
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Do not confuse the speaker of the poem with the writer of the poem.."
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That saying has been used too much here.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not enough, considering how many tend to forget it so often.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The poem still represents your attempt at creativity.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, good; you haven't started calling it "plagiarized" yet..
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Should she have?
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be a typical NancyGene troll stunt, yes.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't ask if she would have (in your paranoid opinion), but *should* she have.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance is known (with or without justification) for
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's just a smear from PJR, Pen, you know that......
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pendragon damned well knows it.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That only accounts for one of the accusations.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Both Jim and I were victims of another form of literary theft when George Dance refused to remove our poetry from his website and posted out of context quotes by us in his wiki.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's not plagiarism, though.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> What part of "another form" are you failing to comprehend?
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance did, otoh, plagiarize "Batty's Hat" from PJR. And you know that, as well.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> No, it was a parody, satire of PJR.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> Fair use.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you nailed that onme, Doc...!
> > >> >>>>>>>>> Obvious, probably even to PJR himself.
> > >> >>>>>>>> Obviously not, since PJR accused George Dance of having plagiarized it from him.
> > >> >>>>>>> I didn't say PJR would admit it, little monkey.
> > >> >>>>>> Was George's "Penny's Hat" blog a satire as well, Donkey?
> > >> >>>>> I don't remember, we should ask George Dance, little monkey.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>>> If you like. I do remember reading PJR's accusation, and finding it disturbingly convincing.
> > >> >>> Your memory is not well known to be very trustworthy, Pen.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> I am known for having an exceptional memory, Stink.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> I could easily find and repost PJR's accusation, but I doubt that George Dance would be happy about it.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> I also doubt that George Dance appreciates how you and your Donkey insist on pressing the issue. As previously noted, I don't believe that George Dance intentionally set out to plagiarize PJR.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> However, that is precisely what he did
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> > No, that was a false accusation of PJ Ross's (and, now, yours). The
> > >> > alleged plagiaized poem that PJ Ross claimed I'd posted never existed.
> > >> > When that was not just pointed out but proven, he simply made up a story
> > >> > that I'd "deleted" it (not just from Google groups, but from all of
> > >> > usenet).
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> >> , and raking it over the coals, yet another time, does nothing to improve his reputation.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> > Actually, I think allowing bogus allegations like the above one go
> > >> > unanswered would be far worse for my reputation.
> > >> Pendragon has based a bit of his persona on PJR, he wanted to have PJR mentor him, remember?
> >
> > > PP or STFU
> > You know I can prove it, little monkey.
> If I thought you could prove it, I wouldn't have asked for proof.
>
> Now PP or STFU.

On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 3:05:18 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>
> > On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 7:33:48 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> George J. Dance wrote:
> >>
> >> > On 2022-11-02 9:03 a.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >> >> On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 12:04:09 AM UTC-4, Zod wrote:
> >> >>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 3:25:28 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 2:11:38 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 12:59:44 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, October 22, 2022 at 5:51:34 AM UTC, george....@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> postpoetry
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> although there's nothing left to say
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we're gonna say it anyway
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a reader doesn't read
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we'll call him something we don't need
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a critic calls it shit
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we won't believe a word of it
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a poet points that out
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we'll just ignore it & we'll shout
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about her frogs and trees and birds
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so we won't have to read her words
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or better yet let's write of war
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and fill a page or two with gore
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some reeking flesh a severed head
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & maggots feasting on the dead
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if perchance that doesn't shock
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> let's add a line of fuck ass cock
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motherfucker piss & shit
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (who knows that just might pass for wit)
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what else to do what else to say
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when everything is mere cliche?
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how else to make a reader feel
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or think that what we say is real?
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course the whole idea is dumb
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when we're as comfortably numb
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but if we sweat through every motion
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we may feel a real emotion –
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at least it kills an hour or two
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and we have nothing else to do.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance, 2007
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Doggerel, and other doggerel, 2015
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance don't need no stinkin' commas.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It isn't about what George Dance needs, "Professor"; it's about what the
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> speaker of the poem needs.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The speaker in your poem is not "a muse."
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I never said he was. Where did you get the idea the speaker might be a
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> muse?
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If poetry is meant to be read aloud, how does your lack of punctuation help your poem?
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Use the line and stanza breaks. That's what they're there for.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You did not address the visual demand for six ampersands..
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's just part of the style. "and" is replaced by &..
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does the speaker say "ampersand" in each line?
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, "Professor,", an ampersand is pronounced "and." I can understand you
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not knowing that, but it's something you could have Googled.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me quote (from memory) from Karla, another wannabe online poetry
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> teacher we once had here:
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Do not confuse the speaker of the poem with the writer of the poem.."
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That saying has been used too much here.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not enough, considering how many tend to forget it so often.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The poem still represents your attempt at creativity.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, good; you haven't started calling it "plagiarized" yet..
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Should she have?
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be a typical NancyGene troll stunt, yes..
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't ask if she would have (in your paranoid opinion), but *should* she have.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance is known (with or without justification) for
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's just a smear from PJR, Pen, you know that......
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pendragon damned well knows it.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That only accounts for one of the accusations.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Both Jim and I were victims of another form of literary theft when George Dance refused to remove our poetry from his website and posted out of context quotes by us in his wiki.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's not plagiarism, though.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> What part of "another form" are you failing to comprehend?
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance did, otoh, plagiarize "Batty's Hat" from PJR.. And you know that, as well.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> No, it was a parody, satire of PJR.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Fair use.
> >> >>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you nailed that onme, Doc...!
> >> >>>>>>>>> Obvious, probably even to PJR himself.
> >> >>>>>>>> Obviously not, since PJR accused George Dance of having plagiarized it from him.
> >> >>>>>>> I didn't say PJR would admit it, little monkey.
> >> >>>>>> Was George's "Penny's Hat" blog a satire as well, Donkey?
> >> >>>>> I don't remember, we should ask George Dance, little monkey.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> If you like. I do remember reading PJR's accusation, and finding it disturbingly convincing.
> >> >>> Your memory is not well known to be very trustworthy, Pen.
> >> >>
> >> >> I am known for having an exceptional memory, Stink.
> >> >>
> >> >> I could easily find and repost PJR's accusation, but I doubt that George Dance would be happy about it.
> >> >>
> >> >> I also doubt that George Dance appreciates how you and your Donkey insist on pressing the issue. As previously noted, I don't believe that George Dance intentionally set out to plagiarize PJR.
> >> >>
> >> >> However, that is precisely what he did
> >>
> >>
> >> > No, that was a false accusation of PJ Ross's (and, now, yours). The
> >> > alleged plagiaized poem that PJ Ross claimed I'd posted never existed.
> >> > When that was not just pointed out but proven, he simply made up a story
> >> > that I'd "deleted" it (not just from Google groups, but from all of
> >> > usenet).
> >>
> >>
> >> >> , and raking it over the coals, yet another time, does nothing to improve his reputation.
> >>
> >>
> >> > Actually, I think allowing bogus allegations like the above one go
> >> > unanswered would be far worse for my reputation.
> >> Pendragon has based a bit of his persona on PJR, he wanted to have PJR mentor him, remember?
>
> > PP or STFU
> You know I can prove it, little monkey.

On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 3:22:35 PM UTC-4, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 3:05:18 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >
> > > On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 7:33:48 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > >> George J. Dance wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > On 2022-11-02 9:03 a.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > >> >> On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 12:04:09 AM UTC-4, Zod wrote:
> > >> >>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>>> On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 3:25:28 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 2:11:38 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 12:59:44 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, October 22, 2022 at 5:51:34 AM UTC, george....@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> postpoetry
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> although there's nothing left to say
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we're gonna say it anyway
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a reader doesn't read
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we'll call him something we don't need
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a critic calls it shit
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we won't believe a word of it
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a poet points that out
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we'll just ignore it & we'll shout
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about her frogs and trees and birds
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so we won't have to read her words
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or better yet let's write of war
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and fill a page or two with gore
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some reeking flesh a severed head
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & maggots feasting on the dead
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if perchance that doesn't shock
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> let's add a line of fuck ass cock
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motherfucker piss & shit
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (who knows that just might pass for wit)
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what else to do what else to say
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when everything is mere cliche?
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how else to make a reader feel
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or think that what we say is real?
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course the whole idea is dumb
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when we're as comfortably numb
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but if we sweat through every motion
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we may feel a real emotion –
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at least it kills an hour or two
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and we have nothing else to do.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance, 2007
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Doggerel, and other doggerel, 2015
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance don't need no stinkin' commas.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It isn't about what George Dance needs, "Professor"; it's about what the
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> speaker of the poem needs.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The speaker in your poem is not "a muse."
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I never said he was. Where did you get the idea the speaker might be a
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> muse?
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If poetry is meant to be read aloud, how does your lack of punctuation help your poem?
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Use the line and stanza breaks. That's what they're there for.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You did not address the visual demand for six ampersands..
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's just part of the style. "and" is replaced by &..
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does the speaker say "ampersand" in each line?
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, "Professor,", an ampersand is pronounced "and." I can understand you
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not knowing that, but it's something you could have Googled.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me quote (from memory) from Karla, another wannabe online poetry
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> teacher we once had here:
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Do not confuse the speaker of the poem with the writer of the poem.."
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That saying has been used too much here.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not enough, considering how many tend to forget it so often.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The poem still represents your attempt at creativity.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, good; you haven't started calling it "plagiarized" yet..
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Should she have?
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be a typical NancyGene troll stunt, yes.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't ask if she would have (in your paranoid opinion), but *should* she have.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance is known (with or without justification) for
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's just a smear from PJR, Pen, you know that......
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pendragon damned well knows it.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That only accounts for one of the accusations.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Both Jim and I were victims of another form of literary theft when George Dance refused to remove our poetry from his website and posted out of context quotes by us in his wiki.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's not plagiarism, though.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> What part of "another form" are you failing to comprehend?
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance did, otoh, plagiarize "Batty's Hat" from PJR. And you know that, as well.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> No, it was a parody, satire of PJR.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> Fair use.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you nailed that onme, Doc...!
> > >> >>>>>>>>> Obvious, probably even to PJR himself.
> > >> >>>>>>>> Obviously not, since PJR accused George Dance of having plagiarized it from him.
> > >> >>>>>>> I didn't say PJR would admit it, little monkey.
> > >> >>>>>> Was George's "Penny's Hat" blog a satire as well, Donkey?
> > >> >>>>> I don't remember, we should ask George Dance, little monkey.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>>> If you like. I do remember reading PJR's accusation, and finding it disturbingly convincing.
> > >> >>> Your memory is not well known to be very trustworthy, Pen.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> I am known for having an exceptional memory, Stink.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> I could easily find and repost PJR's accusation, but I doubt that George Dance would be happy about it.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> I also doubt that George Dance appreciates how you and your Donkey insist on pressing the issue. As previously noted, I don't believe that George Dance intentionally set out to plagiarize PJR.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> However, that is precisely what he did
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> > No, that was a false accusation of PJ Ross's (and, now, yours). The
> > >> > alleged plagiaized poem that PJ Ross claimed I'd posted never existed.
> > >> > When that was not just pointed out but proven, he simply made up a story
> > >> > that I'd "deleted" it (not just from Google groups, but from all of
> > >> > usenet).
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> >> , and raking it over the coals, yet another time, does nothing to improve his reputation.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> > Actually, I think allowing bogus allegations like the above one go
> > >> > unanswered would be far worse for my reputation.
> > >> Pendragon has based a bit of his persona on PJR, he wanted to have PJR mentor him, remember?
> >
> > > PP or STFU
> > You know I can prove it, little monkey.
> If I thought you could prove it,

On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 7:28:45 PM UTC-4, Zod wrote:
> George J. Dance wrote:
>
> > On 2022-11-02 12:05 p.m., Ash Wurthing wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 9:52:25 AM UTC-4, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 9:49:48 AM UTC-4, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> postpoetry
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> although there's nothing left to say
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we're gonna say it anyway
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a reader doesn't read
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we'll call him something we don't need
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a critic calls it shit
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we won't believe a word of it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a poet points that out
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we'll just ignore it & we'll shout
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about her frogs and trees and birds
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so we won't have to read her words
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or better yet let's write of war
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and fill a page or two with gore
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some reeking flesh a severed head
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & maggots feasting on the dead
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if perchance that doesn't shock
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> let's add a line of fuck ass cock
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motherfucker piss & shit
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (who knows that just might pass for wit)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what else to do what else to say
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when everything is mere cliche?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how else to make a reader feel
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or think that what we say is real?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course the whole idea is dumb
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when we're as comfortably numb
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but if we sweat through every motion
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we may feel a real emotion –
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at least it kills an hour or two
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and we have nothing else to do.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance, 2007
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Doggerel, and other doggerel, 2015
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance don't need no stinkin' commas.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It isn't about what George Dance needs, "Professor"; it's about what the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> speaker of the poem needs.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The speaker in your poem is not "a muse."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I never said he was. Where did you get the idea the speaker might be a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> muse?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If poetry is meant to be read aloud, how does your lack of punctuation help your poem?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Use the line and stanza breaks. That's what they're there for.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You did not address the visual demand for six ampersands..
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's just part of the style. "and" is replaced by &.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does the speaker say "ampersand" in each line?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, "Professor,", an ampersand is pronounced "and." I can understand you
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not knowing that, but it's something you could have Googled.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me quote (from memory) from Karla, another wannabe online poetry
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> teacher we once had here:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Do not confuse the speaker of the poem with the writer of the poem.."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That saying has been used too much here.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not enough, considering how many tend to forget it so often.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The poem still represents your attempt at creativity.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, good; you haven't started calling it "plagiarized" yet..
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Should she have?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be a typical NancyGene troll stunt, yes..
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't ask if she would have (in your paranoid opinion), but *should* she have.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance is known (with or without justification) for
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's just a smear from PJR, Pen, you know that......
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pendragon damned well knows it.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That only accounts for one of the accusations.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Both Jim and I were victims of another form of literary theft when George Dance refused to remove our poetry from his website and posted out of context quotes by us in his wiki.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's not plagiarism, though.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What part of "another form" are you failing to comprehend?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance did, otoh, plagiarize "Batty's Hat" from PJR.. And you know that, as well.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, it was a parody, satire of PJR.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fair use.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you nailed that onme, Doc...!
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Obvious, probably even to PJR himself.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Obviously not, since PJR accused George Dance of having plagiarized it from him.
> >>>>>>>>>> I didn't say PJR would admit it, little monkey.
> >>>>>>>>> Was George's "Penny's Hat" blog a satire as well, Donkey?
> >>>>>>>> I don't remember, we should ask George Dance, little monkey.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> If you like. I do remember reading PJR's accusation, and finding it disturbingly convincing.
> >>>>>> Your memory is not well known to be very trustworthy, Pen.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I am known for having an exceptional memory, Stink.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I could easily find and repost PJR's accusation, but I doubt that George Dance would be happy about it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I also doubt that George Dance appreciates how you and your Donkey insist on pressing the issue. As previously noted, I don't believe that George Dance intentionally set out to plagiarize PJR.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> However, that is precisely what he did
>
> >>>> No, that was a false accusation of PJ Ross's (and, now, yours). The
> >>>> alleged plagiaized poem that PJ Ross claimed I'd posted never existed.
> >>>> When that was not just pointed out but proven, he simply made up a story
> >>>> that I'd "deleted" it (not just from Google groups, but from all of
> >>>> usenet).
> >>>>> , and raking it over the coals, yet another time, does nothing to improve his reputation.
> >>>> Actually, I think allowing bogus allegations like the above one go
> >>>> unanswered would be far worse for my reputation.
> >>> You should have heeded my advice to Stink,.
> >>>
> >>> The accusations are both inescapably correct -- and damning. Especially your comment to Will: "Hell, if we get rid of 'Batty', we can cut PJ out of the credits, too, and put you in. (Of course we have to change 'his' to 'her' in the last line. Let's see what ray thinks."
> >>
> >> Vile! No wonder that PJR declared war.
>
>
> > Excellent. Michael Monkey was just demanding evidence that you're a liar
> > and bullshitter -- thank you for providing some.
>
> > In fact, PJ did not "declare war" over "Penny". In fact, he'd already
> > been conducting a flame war with me for years, on more than one
> > newsgroup. He only made the claim that "Penny" was plagiarized as part
> > of his ongoing flame war.
>
> > (That's all in the archives, Michael -- so don't try the "PPOSTFU"
> > gambit on it as well.
>
>
> >> Good thing the whippin fools didn't bullshit me into siding against him.
>
>
> > He'd merely have killfiled you, as (I believe) he ended up doing anyway..
> I must admit that Peter was often amusing and informative....

On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 3:37:28 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 3:22:35 PM UTC-4, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 3:05:18 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 7:33:48 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > >> George J. Dance wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> > On 2022-11-02 9:03 a.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > >> >> On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 12:04:09 AM UTC-4, Zod wrote:
> > > >> >>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>>> On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 3:25:28 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 2:11:38 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 12:59:44 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, October 22, 2022 at 5:51:34 AM UTC, george....@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> postpoetry
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> although there's nothing left to say
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we're gonna say it anyway
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a reader doesn't read
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we'll call him something we don't need
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a critic calls it shit
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we won't believe a word of it
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a poet points that out
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we'll just ignore it & we'll shout
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about her frogs and trees and birds
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so we won't have to read her words
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or better yet let's write of war
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and fill a page or two with gore
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some reeking flesh a severed head
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & maggots feasting on the dead
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if perchance that doesn't shock
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> let's add a line of fuck ass cock
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motherfucker piss & shit
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (who knows that just might pass for wit)
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what else to do what else to say
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when everything is mere cliche?
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how else to make a reader feel
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or think that what we say is real?
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course the whole idea is dumb
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when we're as comfortably numb
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but if we sweat through every motion
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we may feel a real emotion –
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at least it kills an hour or two
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and we have nothing else to do.
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance, 2007
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Doggerel, and other doggerel, 2015
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance don't need no stinkin' commas.
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It isn't about what George Dance needs, "Professor"; it's about what the
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> speaker of the poem needs.
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The speaker in your poem is not "a muse."
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I never said he was. Where did you get the idea the speaker might be a
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> muse?
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If poetry is meant to be read aloud, how does your lack of punctuation help your poem?
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Use the line and stanza breaks. That's what they're there for.
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You did not address the visual demand for six ampersands..
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's just part of the style. "and" is replaced by &..
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does the speaker say "ampersand" in each line?
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, "Professor,", an ampersand is pronounced "and." I can understand you
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not knowing that, but it's something you could have Googled.
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me quote (from memory) from Karla, another wannabe online poetry
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> teacher we once had here:
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Do not confuse the speaker of the poem with the writer of the poem.."
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That saying has been used too much here.
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not enough, considering how many tend to forget it so often.
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The poem still represents your attempt at creativity.
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, good; you haven't started calling it "plagiarized" yet..
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Should she have?
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be a typical NancyGene troll stunt, yes.
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't ask if she would have (in your paranoid opinion), but *should* she have.
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance is known (with or without justification) for
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's just a smear from PJR, Pen, you know that......
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pendragon damned well knows it.
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That only accounts for one of the accusations.
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Both Jim and I were victims of another form of literary theft when George Dance refused to remove our poetry from his website and posted out of context quotes by us in his wiki.
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's not plagiarism, though.
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> What part of "another form" are you failing to comprehend?
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance did, otoh, plagiarize "Batty's Hat" from PJR. And you know that, as well.
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>> No, it was a parody, satire of PJR.
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>> Fair use.
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you nailed that onme, Doc...!
> > > >> >>>>>>>>> Obvious, probably even to PJR himself.
> > > >> >>>>>>>> Obviously not, since PJR accused George Dance of having plagiarized it from him.
> > > >> >>>>>>> I didn't say PJR would admit it, little monkey.
> > > >> >>>>>> Was George's "Penny's Hat" blog a satire as well, Donkey?
> > > >> >>>>> I don't remember, we should ask George Dance, little monkey.
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>>> If you like. I do remember reading PJR's accusation, and finding it disturbingly convincing.
> > > >> >>> Your memory is not well known to be very trustworthy, Pen.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> I am known for having an exceptional memory, Stink.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> I could easily find and repost PJR's accusation, but I doubt that George Dance would be happy about it.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> I also doubt that George Dance appreciates how you and your Donkey insist on pressing the issue. As previously noted, I don't believe that George Dance intentionally set out to plagiarize PJR.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> However, that is precisely what he did
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> > No, that was a false accusation of PJ Ross's (and, now, yours). The
> > > >> > alleged plagiaized poem that PJ Ross claimed I'd posted never existed.
> > > >> > When that was not just pointed out but proven, he simply made up a story
> > > >> > that I'd "deleted" it (not just from Google groups, but from all of
> > > >> > usenet).
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> >> , and raking it over the coals, yet another time, does nothing to improve his reputation.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> > Actually, I think allowing bogus allegations like the above one go
> > > >> > unanswered would be far worse for my reputation.
> > > >> Pendragon has based a bit of his persona on PJR, he wanted to have PJR mentor him, remember?
> > >
> > > > PP or STFU
> > > You know I can prove it, little monkey.
> > If I thought you could prove it,
> Your poor memory is showing again, Pendragon.
>
> You probably don't even remember PJR laughing as he rejected you.
>
> 🙂
> I wouldn't have asked for proof.
> >
> > Now PP or STFU.

On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 3:37:28 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 3:22:35 PM UTC-4, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 3:05:18 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 7:33:48 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > >> George J. Dance wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> > On 2022-11-02 9:03 a.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > >> >> On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 12:04:09 AM UTC-4, Zod wrote:
> > > >> >>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>>> On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 3:25:28 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 2:11:38 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 12:59:44 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, October 22, 2022 at 5:51:34 AM UTC, george....@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> postpoetry
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> although there's nothing left to say
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we're gonna say it anyway
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a reader doesn't read
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we'll call him something we don't need
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a critic calls it shit
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we won't believe a word of it
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a poet points that out
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we'll just ignore it & we'll shout
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about her frogs and trees and birds
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so we won't have to read her words
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or better yet let's write of war
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and fill a page or two with gore
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some reeking flesh a severed head
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & maggots feasting on the dead
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if perchance that doesn't shock
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> let's add a line of fuck ass cock
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motherfucker piss & shit
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (who knows that just might pass for wit)
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what else to do what else to say
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when everything is mere cliche?
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how else to make a reader feel
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or think that what we say is real?
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course the whole idea is dumb
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when we're as comfortably numb
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but if we sweat through every motion
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we may feel a real emotion –
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at least it kills an hour or two
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and we have nothing else to do.
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance, 2007
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Doggerel, and other doggerel, 2015
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance don't need no stinkin' commas.
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It isn't about what George Dance needs, "Professor"; it's about what the
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> speaker of the poem needs.
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The speaker in your poem is not "a muse."
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I never said he was. Where did you get the idea the speaker might be a
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> muse?
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If poetry is meant to be read aloud, how does your lack of punctuation help your poem?
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Use the line and stanza breaks. That's what they're there for.
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You did not address the visual demand for six ampersands..
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's just part of the style. "and" is replaced by &..
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does the speaker say "ampersand" in each line?
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, "Professor,", an ampersand is pronounced "and." I can understand you
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not knowing that, but it's something you could have Googled.
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me quote (from memory) from Karla, another wannabe online poetry
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> teacher we once had here:
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Do not confuse the speaker of the poem with the writer of the poem.."
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That saying has been used too much here.
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not enough, considering how many tend to forget it so often.
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The poem still represents your attempt at creativity.
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, good; you haven't started calling it "plagiarized" yet..
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Should she have?
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be a typical NancyGene troll stunt, yes.
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't ask if she would have (in your paranoid opinion), but *should* she have.
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance is known (with or without justification) for
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's just a smear from PJR, Pen, you know that......
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pendragon damned well knows it.
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That only accounts for one of the accusations.
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Both Jim and I were victims of another form of literary theft when George Dance refused to remove our poetry from his website and posted out of context quotes by us in his wiki.
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's not plagiarism, though.
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> What part of "another form" are you failing to comprehend?
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance did, otoh, plagiarize "Batty's Hat" from PJR. And you know that, as well.
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>> No, it was a parody, satire of PJR.
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>> Fair use.
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you nailed that onme, Doc...!
> > > >> >>>>>>>>> Obvious, probably even to PJR himself.
> > > >> >>>>>>>> Obviously not, since PJR accused George Dance of having plagiarized it from him.
> > > >> >>>>>>> I didn't say PJR would admit it, little monkey.
> > > >> >>>>>> Was George's "Penny's Hat" blog a satire as well, Donkey?
> > > >> >>>>> I don't remember, we should ask George Dance, little monkey.
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>>> If you like. I do remember reading PJR's accusation, and finding it disturbingly convincing.
> > > >> >>> Your memory is not well known to be very trustworthy, Pen.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> I am known for having an exceptional memory, Stink.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> I could easily find and repost PJR's accusation, but I doubt that George Dance would be happy about it.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> I also doubt that George Dance appreciates how you and your Donkey insist on pressing the issue. As previously noted, I don't believe that George Dance intentionally set out to plagiarize PJR.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> However, that is precisely what he did
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> > No, that was a false accusation of PJ Ross's (and, now, yours). The
> > > >> > alleged plagiaized poem that PJ Ross claimed I'd posted never existed.
> > > >> > When that was not just pointed out but proven, he simply made up a story
> > > >> > that I'd "deleted" it (not just from Google groups, but from all of
> > > >> > usenet).
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> >> , and raking it over the coals, yet another time, does nothing to improve his reputation.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> > Actually, I think allowing bogus allegations like the above one go
> > > >> > unanswered would be far worse for my reputation.
> > > >> Pendragon has based a bit of his persona on PJR, he wanted to have PJR mentor him, remember?
> > >
> > > > PP or STFU
> > > You know I can prove it, little monkey.
> > If I thought you could prove it,
> Your poor memory is showing again, Pendragon.
>
> You probably don't even remember PJR laughing as he rejected you.

On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 3:45:05 PM UTC-4, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 3:37:28 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 3:22:35 PM UTC-4, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 3:05:18 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 7:33:48 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > >> George J. Dance wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > On 2022-11-02 9:03 a.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > >> >> On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 12:04:09 AM UTC-4, Zod wrote:
> > > > >> >>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > >> >>>
> > > > >> >>>> On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 3:25:28 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 2:11:38 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 12:59:44 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, October 22, 2022 at 5:51:34 AM UTC, george....@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > >> >>>>
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> postpoetry
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> although there's nothing left to say
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we're gonna say it anyway
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a reader doesn't read
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we'll call him something we don't need
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a critic calls it shit
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we won't believe a word of it
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a poet points that out
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we'll just ignore it & we'll shout
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about her frogs and trees and birds
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so we won't have to read her words
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or better yet let's write of war
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and fill a page or two with gore
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some reeking flesh a severed head
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & maggots feasting on the dead
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if perchance that doesn't shock
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> let's add a line of fuck ass cock
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motherfucker piss & shit
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (who knows that just might pass for wit)
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what else to do what else to say
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when everything is mere cliche?
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how else to make a reader feel
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or think that what we say is real?
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course the whole idea is dumb
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when we're as comfortably numb
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but if we sweat through every motion
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we may feel a real emotion –
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at least it kills an hour or two
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and we have nothing else to do.
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance, 2007
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Doggerel, and other doggerel, 2015
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance don't need no stinkin' commas.
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It isn't about what George Dance needs, "Professor"; it's about what the
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> speaker of the poem needs.
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The speaker in your poem is not "a muse."
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I never said he was. Where did you get the idea the speaker might be a
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> muse?
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If poetry is meant to be read aloud, how does your lack of punctuation help your poem?
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Use the line and stanza breaks. That's what they're there for.
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You did not address the visual demand for six ampersands..
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's just part of the style. "and" is replaced by &..
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does the speaker say "ampersand" in each line?
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, "Professor,", an ampersand is pronounced "and." I can understand you
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not knowing that, but it's something you could have Googled.
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me quote (from memory) from Karla, another wannabe online poetry
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> teacher we once had here:
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Do not confuse the speaker of the poem with the writer of the poem.."
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That saying has been used too much here.
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not enough, considering how many tend to forget it so often.
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The poem still represents your attempt at creativity.
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, good; you haven't started calling it "plagiarized" yet..
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Should she have?
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be a typical NancyGene troll stunt, yes.
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't ask if she would have (in your paranoid opinion), but *should* she have.
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance is known (with or without justification) for
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's just a smear from PJR, Pen, you know that.....
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pendragon damned well knows it.
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That only accounts for one of the accusations.
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Both Jim and I were victims of another form of literary theft when George Dance refused to remove our poetry from his website and posted out of context quotes by us in his wiki.
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's not plagiarism, though.
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> What part of "another form" are you failing to comprehend?
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance did, otoh, plagiarize "Batty's Hat" from PJR. And you know that, as well.
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>> No, it was a parody, satire of PJR.
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>> Fair use.
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you nailed that onme, Doc...!
> > > > >> >>>>>>>>> Obvious, probably even to PJR himself.
> > > > >> >>>>>>>> Obviously not, since PJR accused George Dance of having plagiarized it from him.
> > > > >> >>>>>>> I didn't say PJR would admit it, little monkey.
> > > > >> >>>>>> Was George's "Penny's Hat" blog a satire as well, Donkey?
> > > > >> >>>>> I don't remember, we should ask George Dance, little monkey.
> > > > >> >>>
> > > > >> >>>> If you like. I do remember reading PJR's accusation, and finding it disturbingly convincing.
> > > > >> >>> Your memory is not well known to be very trustworthy, Pen.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> I am known for having an exceptional memory, Stink.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> I could easily find and repost PJR's accusation, but I doubt that George Dance would be happy about it.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> I also doubt that George Dance appreciates how you and your Donkey insist on pressing the issue. As previously noted, I don't believe that George Dance intentionally set out to plagiarize PJR.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> However, that is precisely what he did
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > No, that was a false accusation of PJ Ross's (and, now, yours).. The
> > > > >> > alleged plagiaized poem that PJ Ross claimed I'd posted never existed.
> > > > >> > When that was not just pointed out but proven, he simply made up a story
> > > > >> > that I'd "deleted" it (not just from Google groups, but from all of
> > > > >> > usenet).
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> >> , and raking it over the coals, yet another time, does nothing to improve his reputation.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > Actually, I think allowing bogus allegations like the above one go
> > > > >> > unanswered would be far worse for my reputation.
> > > > >> Pendragon has based a bit of his persona on PJR, he wanted to have PJR mentor him, remember?
> > > >
> > > > > PP or STFU
> > > > You know I can prove it, little monkey.
> > > If I thought you could prove it,
> > Your poor memory is showing again, Pendragon.
> >
> > You probably don't even remember PJR laughing as he rejected you.
> You're known for

On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 3:50:45 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 3:45:05 PM UTC-4, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 3:37:28 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 3:22:35 PM UTC-4, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 3:05:18 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 7:33:48 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > >> George J. Dance wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> > On 2022-11-02 9:03 a.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > > >> >> On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 12:04:09 AM UTC-4, Zod wrote:
> > > > > >> >>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > > >> >>>
> > > > > >> >>>> On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 3:25:28 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 2:11:38 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 12:59:44 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, October 22, 2022 at 5:51:34 AM UTC, george....@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > >> >>>>
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> postpoetry
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> although there's nothing left to say
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we're gonna say it anyway
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a reader doesn't read
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we'll call him something we don't need
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a critic calls it shit
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we won't believe a word of it
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a poet points that out
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we'll just ignore it & we'll shout
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about her frogs and trees and birds
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so we won't have to read her words
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or better yet let's write of war
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and fill a page or two with gore
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some reeking flesh a severed head
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & maggots feasting on the dead
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if perchance that doesn't shock
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> let's add a line of fuck ass cock
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motherfucker piss & shit
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (who knows that just might pass for wit)
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what else to do what else to say
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when everything is mere cliche?
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how else to make a reader feel
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or think that what we say is real?
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course the whole idea is dumb
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when we're as comfortably numb
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but if we sweat through every motion
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we may feel a real emotion –
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at least it kills an hour or two
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and we have nothing else to do.
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance, 2007
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Doggerel, and other doggerel, 2015
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance don't need no stinkin' commas.
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It isn't about what George Dance needs, "Professor"; it's about what the
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> speaker of the poem needs.
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The speaker in your poem is not "a muse.."
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I never said he was. Where did you get the idea the speaker might be a
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> muse?
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If poetry is meant to be read aloud, how does your lack of punctuation help your poem?
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Use the line and stanza breaks. That's what they're there for.
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You did not address the visual demand for six ampersands..
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's just part of the style. "and" is replaced by &..
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does the speaker say "ampersand" in each line?
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, "Professor,", an ampersand is pronounced "and." I can understand you
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not knowing that, but it's something you could have Googled.
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me quote (from memory) from Karla, another wannabe online poetry
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> teacher we once had here:
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Do not confuse the speaker of the poem with the writer of the poem.."
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That saying has been used too much here..
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not enough, considering how many tend to forget it so often.
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The poem still represents your attempt at creativity.
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, good; you haven't started calling it "plagiarized" yet..
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Should she have?
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be a typical NancyGene troll stunt, yes.
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't ask if she would have (in your paranoid opinion), but *should* she have.
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance is known (with or without justification) for
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's just a smear from PJR, Pen, you know that.....
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pendragon damned well knows it.
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That only accounts for one of the accusations.
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Both Jim and I were victims of another form of literary theft when George Dance refused to remove our poetry from his website and posted out of context quotes by us in his wiki.
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's not plagiarism, though.
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> What part of "another form" are you failing to comprehend?
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance did, otoh, plagiarize "Batty's Hat" from PJR. And you know that, as well.
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>> No, it was a parody, satire of PJR.
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>>> Fair use.
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you nailed that onme, Doc...!
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>>> Obvious, probably even to PJR himself.
> > > > > >> >>>>>>>> Obviously not, since PJR accused George Dance of having plagiarized it from him.
> > > > > >> >>>>>>> I didn't say PJR would admit it, little monkey.
> > > > > >> >>>>>> Was George's "Penny's Hat" blog a satire as well, Donkey?
> > > > > >> >>>>> I don't remember, we should ask George Dance, little monkey.
> > > > > >> >>>
> > > > > >> >>>> If you like. I do remember reading PJR's accusation, and finding it disturbingly convincing.
> > > > > >> >>> Your memory is not well known to be very trustworthy, Pen.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> I am known for having an exceptional memory, Stink.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> I could easily find and repost PJR's accusation, but I doubt that George Dance would be happy about it.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> I also doubt that George Dance appreciates how you and your Donkey insist on pressing the issue. As previously noted, I don't believe that George Dance intentionally set out to plagiarize PJR.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> However, that is precisely what he did
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> > No, that was a false accusation of PJ Ross's (and, now, yours). The
> > > > > >> > alleged plagiaized poem that PJ Ross claimed I'd posted never existed.
> > > > > >> > When that was not just pointed out but proven, he simply made up a story
> > > > > >> > that I'd "deleted" it (not just from Google groups, but from all of
> > > > > >> > usenet).
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> >> , and raking it over the coals, yet another time, does nothing to improve his reputation.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> > Actually, I think allowing bogus allegations like the above one go
> > > > > >> > unanswered would be far worse for my reputation.
> > > > > >> Pendragon has based a bit of his persona on PJR, he wanted to have PJR mentor him, remember?
> > > > >
> > > > > > PP or STFU
> > > > > You know I can prove it, little monkey.
> > > > If I thought you could prove it,
> > > Your poor memory is showing again, Pendragon.
> > >
> > > You probably don't even remember PJR laughing as he rejected you.
> > You're known for
> I've corrected your faulty memory several times, little monkey.
> being a delusional Donkey.
> >
> > PP or STFU.

Sure, Pendragon, I'll check the archives and post the thread where PJR turned down your request for him to mentor you.

HTH and HAND.

On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 7:55:30 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> Sure, Pendragon, I'll check the archives and post the thread where PJR turned down your request for him to mentor you.

Saying you'll do it, and actually doing it, are two very different things.

Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 7:55:30 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>
>> Sure, Pendragon, I'll check the archives and post the thread where PJR turned down your request for him to mentor you.

> Saying you'll do it, and actually doing it, are two very different things.

And, of course, when I do bump the post up, you'll pretend you didn't see it, as usual, little monkey.

And so it goes.

On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 9:06:30 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>
> > On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 7:55:30 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> >
> >> Sure, Pendragon, I'll check the archives and post the thread where PJR turned down your request for him to mentor you.
>
> > Saying you'll do it, and actually doing it, are two very different things.
> And, of course, when I do bump the post up, you'll pretend you didn't see it, as usual, little monkey.
>
> And so it goes.

Quote the relevant portion and post the link in this thread, Donkey.

Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 9:06:30 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>>
>> > On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 7:55:30 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> >
>> >> Sure, Pendragon, I'll check the archives and post the thread where PJR turned down your request for him to mentor you.
>>
>> > Saying you'll do it, and actually doing it, are two very different things.
>> And, of course, when I do bump the post up, you'll pretend you didn't see it, as usual, little monkey.
>>
>> And so it goes.

> Quote the relevant portion

I'll bump the thread and link to it here

HTH and HAND.

On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 10:21:57 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>
> > On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 9:06:30 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 7:55:30 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Sure, Pendragon, I'll check the archives and post the thread where PJR turned down your request for him to mentor you.
> >>
> >> > Saying you'll do it, and actually doing it, are two very different things.
> >> And, of course, when I do bump the post up, you'll pretend you didn't see it, as usual, little monkey.
> >>
> >> And so it goes.
>
> > Quote the relevant portion
> I'll bump the thread and link to it here

Quote the relevant portion and post a link.

I'm not going to scroll through an entire thread trying to figure out which part you didn't understand.

Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 10:21:57 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>>
>> > On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 9:06:30 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> >> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 7:55:30 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Sure, Pendragon, I'll check the archives and post the thread where PJR turned down your request for him to mentor you.
>> >>
>> >> > Saying you'll do it, and actually doing it, are two very different things.
>> >> And, of course, when I do bump the post up, you'll pretend you didn't see it, as usual, little monkey.
>> >>
>> >> And so it goes.
>>
>> > Quote the relevant portion
>> I'll bump the thread and link to it here.

>

> I'm not going to scroll through an entire thread

The Google Groups links take you right to the relevant post.

On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 6:46:17 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>
> > On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 10:21:57 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 9:06:30 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> >> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 7:55:30 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Sure, Pendragon, I'll check the archives and post the thread where PJR turned down your request for him to mentor you.
> >> >>
> >> >> > Saying you'll do it, and actually doing it, are two very different things.
> >> >> And, of course, when I do bump the post up, you'll pretend you didn't see it, as usual, little monkey.
> >> >>
> >> >> And so it goes.
> >>
> >> > Quote the relevant portion
> >> I'll bump the thread and link to it here.
> >
>
> > I'm not going to scroll through an entire thread
> The Google Groups links take you right to the relevant post.

EARTH TO DONKEY: Since I have never asked Peter any such thing, I will need to know which portion of the post you do not understand.

If you can find a post where you think I am asking Peter to be my mentor, post it (along with a link to the original thread).

If you cannot find it, STFU.

Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 6:46:17 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>>
>> > On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 10:21:57 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> >> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 9:06:30 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> >> >> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 7:55:30 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> Sure, Pendragon, I'll check the archives and post the thread where PJR turned down your request for him to mentor you.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Saying you'll do it, and actually doing it, are two very different things.
>> >> >> And, of course, when I do bump the post up, you'll pretend you didn't see it, as usual, little monkey.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> And so it goes.
>> >>
>> >> > Quote the relevant portion
>> >> I'll bump the thread and link to it here.
>> >
>>
>> > I'm not going to scroll through an entire thread
>> The Google Groups links take you right to the relevant post.

> Since I have never asked Peter any such thing

I didn't expect you to admit it, little monkey.

HTH and HAND.